On Thursday's Anderson Cooper 360, host Cooper got guest Jorge Ramos of Univision to admit that it is a "good thing" that illegal immigration has dropped 40 percent since President Donald Trump took office. But, after complaining that Trump's policies are "xenophobic," and that the President wants to "make American white again," Ramos ended up repeating the misinformation circulating on the left that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than the population in general in spite of studies showing the opposite.
After recalling the numbers on the dramatic drop in illegal immigration, Cooper brought aboard Ramos and wondered if President Trump "deserves credit" as he posed:
Jorge, the massive drop in border apprehensions last month, the Customs border protection says 40 percent fewer -- it's down 40 percent, people trying to cross illegally. What do you make of that? I mean, is it possible that the tough talk on illegal immigration by President Trump is working and he deserves credit for that drop?
After Ramos argued that Latin-Americans feel more "fear" about coming into the country because President Trump has promoted "policies of fear and xenophobia and cruelty," Cooper asked if the illegal immigration drop is a "good thing" as he followed up:
It does mean that people are not taking a very dangerous journey -- women, children, you know, anything can happen as they're trying to cross over illegally. So, I mean, isn't it -- is it a good -- isn't it a good thing that there's this drop?
Ramos began by conceding:
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Yes, it's a good thing that we don't have more illegal immigrants coming to this country. There has to be a legal way to do it. They shouldn't have to risk it. Every year, there's about 400,000 immigrants, Anderson, who come here illegally every year. Now, it seems that it's dropped, and we'll see if this is going to last. But so far, that's good news. On the other hand -- and let me just emphasize that -- it also means that Trump is big news in Latin America.
He then fretted over talk of separating children from illegal immigrant parents as a deterrence as he added:
I've been reporting about many families being separated and destroyed because of Trump's policies. And we heard the Secretary of Homeland Security, General John Kelly, saying that he's considering separating children from their mothers at the border. What kind of country are we becoming? I have a question for General Kelly. How do you humanely separate a kid from his mother? How do you do that? So, in Latin America, they are listening to this message, and what they are hearing is fear -- a lot of fear on this side of the border.
A bit later, after Cooper asked Ramos his view of Trump's talk of changing immigration policy to make it merit-based, the Univision anchor worried that the President is trying to "make America white again" as he responded:
Well, as long as you still have the diversity of immigrants coming to this country, as long as you can unite families and not separate them, yeah, I think, for some people, that could be a good idea. But, on the other hand, what many people are hearing when they listen to Donald Trump is that they want to go back to 1965. It is not "Make America Great Again." It is "Make America White Again."
At the end of the segment, after recalling some of President Trump's complaints about crime coming across the border from Mexico, Ramos wrongly claimed that illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate than the general population in spite of evidence to the contrary. Ramos:
And, by the way, I'm a Mexican immigrant, and what he's saying is absolutely wrong -- 97 percent of immigrants haven't committed a felony. Only three percent of immigrants have done that -- undocumented immigrants. And that, by the way, half of what the average is for Americans.
Below is a complete transcript of the segment from the Thursday, March 9, Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN:
9:30 p.m. ET
ANDERSON COOPER: Well, big change at the U.S.-Mexico border. According to Customs and Border Protection, illegal border crossings dropped 40 percent last month. Now, supporters of President Trump understandably say he deserves credit, that his tough talk has prevented many from attempting the dangerous crossing. Joining us tonight for his take is Univision anchor Jorge Ramos.
Jorge, the massive drop in border apprehensions last month, the Customs border protection says 40 percent fewer -- it's down 40 percent, people trying to cross illegally. What do you make of that? I mean, is it possible that the tough talk on illegal immigration by President Trump is working and he deserves credit for that drop?
JORGE RAMOS, UNIVISION: Let me just say that fear is stronger than any wall. What we are seeing right now is the Trump effect -- is people calling their relatives and their friends in Latin America and saying, "Don't come here. This is not the right moment." So I think it is possible. Really, no one wants illegal immigration -- not even illegal immigrants. It is very risky for them. It is better to do it in a legal way.
And the other positive thing is that I think many Americans - many people who voted for Donald Trump -- they really have to understand that there's no invasion. No one is invading the United States. Mexicans are not invading the United States. The undocumented population has remained stable at 11 million for the last decade. So those are the positive things. The negative is that this is the Trump effect. This is created because of the policies of fear and xenophobia and cruelty. This is because they are deporting people who are not criminals who have no criminal record -- moms and dads -- and that's completely different than what happened with the Barack Obama administration.
COOPER: What's so startling, though, about this drop in numbers, according to law enforcement, is that this is normally a time when they would see an uptick of 10 or 20 percent. So to see a drop of 40 percent is very significant, and, as you point out, I mean, it does mean that people are not taking a very dangerous journey -- women, children, you know, anything can happen as they're trying to cross over illegally. So, I mean, isn't it -- is it a good -- isn't it a good thing that there's this drop?
RAMOS: Yes, it's a good thing that we don't have more illegal immigrants coming to this country. There has to be a legal way to do it. They shouldn't have to risk it. Every year, there's about 400,000 immigrants, Anderson, who come here illegally every year. Now, it seems that it's dropped, and we'll see if this is going to last. But so far, that's good news. On the other hand -- and let me just emphasize that -- it also means that Trump is big news in Latin America. It means that they are listening to what we are seeing here.
In the last two weeks, I've been reporting about many families being separated and destroyed because of Trump's policies. And we heard the Secretary of Homeland Security, General John Kelly, saying that he's considering separating children from their mothers at the border. What kind of country are we becoming? I have a question for General Kelly. How do you humanely separate a kid from his mother? How do you do that? So, in Latin America, they are listening to this message, and what they are hearing is fear -- a lot of fear on this side of the border.
COOPER: He's saying particularly on that idea of the separation is that he wants to prevent people -- discourage people from making the journey from being smuggled in while a policy like that would certainly be met with legal challenges. Is it possible it could also be effective in further curtailing the numbers?
RAMOS: It might be effective, but do we want to be that country? I mean, do we really want to be the country that is separating children from their parents? I don't think so. That's not the American tradition.
COOPER: In terms of what the President said last week that he wants to see the legal immigration system move toward a merit-based approach, thereby in his view, cutting down on the number of immigrants who can't support themselves financially. I think, to a lot of people, they hear that and they think, "Well, sounds like it makes sense." Are they wrong?
RAMOS: Well, as long as you still have the diversity of immigrants coming to this country, as long as you can unite families and not separate them, yeah, I think, for some people, that could be a good idea. But, on the other hand, what many people are hearing when they listen to Donald Trump is that they want to go back to 1965. It is not "Make America Great Again." It is "Make America White Again" -- 1965, for instance, about 80 or 85 percent of population was white. Many people don't like the fact that this is truly becoming a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-racial country.
In 2044 -- I think we've discussed that -- in 2044, whites will become another minority. We're in the process of becoming a minority majority county, and many people don't like that, and many people think that what Donald Trump is proposing -- not only with the deportations but with this merit system -- is that he wants to change this trend of multi-culturalism and diversity that we're seeing in the country.
COOPER: You think that's what's behind that idea?
RAMOS: I think so, I think so. It is very clear, Trump's ideas through the campaign were anti-immigrant and xenophobic. He did say -- we are not inventing that -- he did say that Mexican immigrants are criminals and drug traffickers and rapists. He didn't say "some of them." He didn't say "a tiny minority." He said Mexican immigrants are that. He did say that a judge couldn't do his job simply because he was Hispanic. So those are -- I don't know if he is a racist, but made those racist remarks. So, yes, there is clearly an idea that the way the migration system is going, the way we are conformed demographically, is not what he might want.
COOPER: And just for accuracy's sake, I believe what he actually said was he was talking about illegal immigrants, and what he said was that "some of them," he assumes, "are good people."
RAMOS: At the end, at the end, but he said they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crimes, they're rapists. That's exactly what he said on June 16, 2015. He didn't say "some of them." He was talking about Mexican immigrants. And, by the way, I'm a Mexican immigrant, and what he's saying is absolutely wrong -- 97 percent of immigrants haven't committed a felony. Only three percent of immigrants have done that -- undocumented immigrants. And that, by the way, half of what the average is for Americans.
COOPER: Jorge Ramos, always good to talk to you. Thank you.
