On Sunday afternoon's MSNBC Live with Alex Witt, during a discussion of President Donald Trump's use of federal agents to counteract rioters in Portland and how it might impact this year's presidential election, MSNBC contributor and liberal historian Jon Meacham conflated segregationist Democrat George Wallace with non-segregationist Republican conservatives like Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Barry Goldwater.
After Meacham encouraged viewers to vote against President Trump's "reign of terror" in November, MSNBC Republican Michael Steele agreed with him and encouraged Democrats to turn out to vote against the President.
After Steele began the discussion by arguing that President Trump is moving federal agents into places like Portland to foment more chaos and benefit his reelection, host Witt turned to Meacham and alluded to the liberal trope that when Republicans promise "law and order," it is a racist dog whistle:
ALEX WITT: Trump calling these protests "anarchy" -- using federal forces against Black Lives Matter protesters -- is this reminiscent at all of Richard Nixon -- that law and order message? I mean, is it the same as that? Is it different? What's your interpretation?
Meacham began by sounding regretful that conservatism was not soundly defeated in the 1960s in spite of Goldwater's big electoral loss in 1964:
So 1965, when John Lewis went across the bridge that first time, that seemed to be a kind of high water mark of post-modern American liberalism. The Voting Rights Act passes in August -- the Great Society is going -- Lyndon Johnson is just coming off a 60 percent plus victory in 1964 -- the New York Times wrote that conservatism was dead for a generation on the day after Barry Goldwater lost to Lyndon Johnson in 1964.
He added:
In 1966, Richard Nixon -- the former Vice President -- spent a lot of time on the midterm circuit -- the Republicans had a huge year -- Ronald Reagan became the governor of California -- and you were setting up a kind of backlash. Lyndon Johnson had about as much time as President Kennedy had entirely in office to deal and execute the mandate he received in '64.
Then, even though all three major candidates in 1968 -- including Democratic nominee Hubert Humphrey -- promised "law and order" and pledged to work against the crime wave of the time, Meacham tied Wallace to Nixon and Trump:
And the figure we need to think about … is not Richard Nixon, but George Wallace, who was the governor of Alabama, who was the last person, I believe, to lie in state at the Alabama capitol where Congressman Lewis is now headed on Highway 80. And Wallace said in 1961 that he was going to be the governor who defended segregation today, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever.
Meacham soon suggested that those who voted for Nixon in 1968 had done something wrong
And on election day 1968, more than 55 percent of the country -- think about that for a second -- more than 55 percent of the country voted for either Richard Nixon or George Wallace. And if you go back and look at what Wallace and Nixon were saying, it's what Trump is saying. It's that your neighborhoods are in danger, chaos is in the streets, and "I" -- dare I say it, as Trump would say it -- "I alone can fix it." This is a perennial American meme, and it's something that is going to require immense vigilance on the part of the Democratic party and people who do not want this election to turn out the way 1968 did.
Nixon, of course, worked to desegregate schools as President, and Goldwater had also opposed segregation during his political career in spite of Democrats trying to smear him as a segregationist.
The liberal historian then encouraged voters to reject Trump's "reign of terror" in the next election:
If you want to end this reign of terror -- this reign of error, in terms of COVID -- you've got to vote. And the idea that, somehow or another, because you think -- one thinks that Trump is an idiot or he's, you know, he's a racist, whatever you might think -- one might think -- it's not going to matter if what happened in 2016 happens again.
As Steele got to conclude the segment, the former RNC chairman-turned-liberal MSNBC Republican contributor voiced his agreement that Democrats should turn out to support their candidate.
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Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the Sunday, July 26, MSNBC Live with Alex Witt:
1:31 p.m. Eastern
ALEX WITT: Trump calling these protests "anarchy" -- using federal forces against Black Lives Matter protesters -- is this reminiscent at all of Richard Nixon -- that law and order message? I mean, is it the same as that? Is it different? What's your interpretation?
JON MEACHAM, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Sure. And it's -- there's something poetic about the fact that we're memorializing Congressman Lewis today because American politics -- as Michael knows and as you know, Alex -- bounces back and forth really rapidly. So 1965, when John Lewis went across the bridge that first time, that seemed to be a kind of high water mark of post-modern American liberalism. The Voting Rights Act passes in August -- the Great Society is going -- Lyndon Johnson is just coming off a 60 percent plus victory in 1964 -- the New York Times wrote that conservatism was dead for a generation on the day after Barry Goldwater lost to Lyndon Johnson in 1964.
In 1966, Richard Nixon -- the former Vice President -- spent a lot of time on the midterm circuit -- the Republicans had a huge year -- Ronald Reagan became the governor of California -- and you were setting up a kind of backlash. Lyndon Johnson had about as much time as President Kennedy had entirely in office to deal and execute the mandate he received in '64.
So American politics is a pendulum. Anyone who thinks this presidential election is over is crazy, absolutely. It's over 100 days, and what we're seeing, I think, to go to what Michael was saying, is a conscious effort to show and to sow a certain kind of chaos in the country so that Trump can appear to be the Fortinbras figure from Hamlet coming down and securing law and order and suburbia, right?
And the figure we need to think about -- and the country will have him on its mind for about 24 hours or so -- is not Richard Nixon, but George Wallace, who was the governor of Alabama, who was the last person, I believe, to lie in state at the Alabama capitol where Congressman Lewis is now headed on Highway 80. And Wallace said in 1961 that he was going to be the governor who defended segregation today, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever. In 1964, he ran for President -- he did very well outside the American South. People who think this is entirely a Southern problem are wrong. He did well in Indiana -- he did well in Wisconsin.
And on election day 1968, more than 55 percent of the country -- think about that for a second -- more than 55 percent of the country voted for either Richard Nixon or George Wallace. And if you go back and look at what Wallace and Nixon were saying, it's what Trump is saying. It's that your neighborhoods are in danger, chaos is in the streets, and "I" -- dare I say it, as Trump would say it -- "I alone can fix it." This is a perennial American meme, and it's something that is going to require immense vigilance on the part of the Democratic party and people who do not want this election to turn out the way 1968 did.
(…)
All I'm saying is -- and I think Congressman Lewis would echo it in that wonderful voice where he always spoke with a kind of biblical shout. He was a little guy, but his voice was so strong. If you want to end this reign of terror -- this reign of error, in terms of COVID -- you've got to vote. And the idea that, somehow or another, because you think -- one thinks that Trump is an idiot or he's, you know, he's a racist, whatever you might think -- one might think -- it's not going to matter if what happened in 2016 happens again.
ALEX WITT: Yeah, and I just want to make the point that this President won the presidency in terms of the Electoral College, but he did not get the popular vote, so that is a point to be made.
(…)
MICHAEL STEELE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: I have two things I want to say very quickly. One, if you're not listening to what my good friend, Jon Meacham, just said, you're going to miss this election -- you're gong to miss the next 100 days. How he just framed this moment, is exactly what we're in. This is -- this is -- there's a culmination of '64 and '68 manifested in 2020. Number two, yes, demographics change, but attitudes don't. Attitudes are nurtured, they're formed, they're inculcated in future voters.
So while the numbers say, "Yes, Biden's up by 11, seven, 12" -- he could be up by 20 -- he could be down by 400 Electoral College votes come November -- so there's a lot of work that people have to do -- Democrats have to get their head out of the sand about this election -- listen to what Meacham just said because he just framed it for you. Now, figure out how you're going to go into this November to get that vote turned out so that the Electoral College numbers along with the popular vote aligns in such a way that your candidate wins.
