In an interview with left-wing Salon columnist D. Watkins for Sunday’s Meet the Press web-based feature Press Pass, moderator Chuck Todd lobbed one softball after another to the controversial commentator. Todd began: “...there is an education that's happening, I think, in white America. Black America knew what was going on between law enforcement and African-Americans. I think white America is getting a taste of it for the very first time....Is this a positive moment in America?”
Watkins declared: “It's a positive moment because a lot of people who were not connected to some of the negative things going on inside of our inner cities are starting to realize these things exist through video phones.... you're forced to pay attention and do something about it.”
Moments later, Todd came close to actually challenging some of Watkins’s incendiary statements:
You have tough things to say about law enforcement and you say it doesn't – and you take it a step further. Because some people have said, “Well, it's about diversity in police – in law enforcement agencies,” and you're like color doesn't matter. You write this, “Color doesn't matter when dealing with the police department. They only care about class and power. The cop can be white, black, Asian, Latino or a mix of them all, it doesn't matter, because they are instantly groomed to perfectly fit into the classic old boy slave catcher culture that has been in place for hundreds of years.” That's a tough thing to say about a lot of police officers.
Other than describing the language as “tough,” Todd never suggested such rhetorical bomb-throwing was offensive or unfair.
Watkins replied:
Yeah. And, you know, that came from my own personal experience. So do I think there are good cops? Sure. You know, do I think some good cops get corrupted by the system? Absolutely....When you sign up on the force, the guy who's bringing you in, “You know, hey, I've been walking this beat for X amount of years and, you know, this is how we handle these thugs,” you know, and it gets passed down and passed down and passed down. So, you know, some families pass down wealth and intellect and, you know, opportunity and some families pass down the racism, ignorance and, you know, just negative things. It works the same way.
Some of Watkins’s headlines on Salon include:
> Dear white allies after Charleston: Please understand this about your privilege
> It doesn’t matter if we stay or run: Killer cops are playing a video game with black lives
> Cops are the terrorists in our neighborhood: On Freddie Gray, another victim of police brutality
> Screw the national anthem
Later in Sunday’s exchange, Todd lamented: “Institutional racism is a phrase – African-Americans immediately know what we're talking about when we say that phrase, but a lot of white America – they don't see it.”
He then invited Watkins to define the term. Watkins asserted: “So institutional racism can basically be summed up as the different systems in place that keep people down. Overmilitarized police force, poor schools, and our prison industrial complex.”
Wrapping up the interview, Todd asked Watkins about President Obama. Watkins responded:
You know, I think President Obama has had amazing intentions. And I think he got a tremendous – I think he got a whole lot of positive things done. I think, you know, we're going to look back at his presidency from 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now and say it was a big success, he's done a lot. I truly believe that....But he's part of a system.
On the August 24 edition of Press Pass, Todd teed up New Republic editor Jamil Smith to push the importance of “identity politics” in media coverage.
Here are excerpts of Todd’s interview with Watkins, aired August 30 on the local Washington D.C. NBC affiliate WRC-4:
11:32 AM ET
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CHUCK TODD: It feels like we're at a moment, and the question is, are we at a positive moment or a negative moment? We've had a lot of negative stories, but there is an education that's happening, I think, in white America. Black America knew what was going on between law enforcement and African-Americans. I think white America is getting a taste of it for the very first time or going through it. Is this a positive moment in America?
D. WATKINS [SALON]: It's a positive moment because a lot of people who were not connected to some of the negative things going on inside of our inner cities are starting to realize these things exist through video phones. You know, I can say police officers are mean. I can say that, you know, they're racist or they come through our neighborhoods, and you know, they're not here to protect and serve but just enforce. I can say all of these things. But when I show you Eric Garner unfairly being choked on camera, you're forced to pay attention and do something about it. So I think what's going on right now has actually enhanced social relations.
TODD: So that's step one, understanding the law enforcement issue. Step two, which you write about here in the first part, misunderstanding black America. You talk about how many people – how hard-working residents in east Baltimore are. Trying to work however many jobs it takes to get out of poverty, to get from whatever class they're in into the next class. That part of it I don't think white America sees.
WATKINS: Yeah. A long time ago, maybe a year or so, some politicians came on television and said black – you know, the problem with inner cities is that the people there don't want to work and I just thought that was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard in my life.
TODD: What did that tell you? That they never had been to an inner city?
WATKINS: Told me the guy who said it was either ignorant or just a liar. You know, just the gall to say something like that is disgusting. The community where I come from in east Baltimore, there are some of the most hardest working people in the world. And you know, to say that just shows how disconnected a lot of people are.
TODD: You have tough things to say about law enforcement and you say it doesn't – and you take it a step further. Because some people have said, “Well, it's about diversity in police – in law enforcement agencies,” and you're like color doesn't matter. You write this. “Color doesn't matter when dealing with the police department. They only care about class and power. The cop can be white, black, Asian, Latino or a mix of them all, it doesn't matter, because they are instantly groomed to perfectly fit into the classic old boy slave catcher culture that has been in place for hundreds of years.” That's a tough thing to say about a lot of police officers.
WATKINS: Yeah. And, you know, that came from my own personal experience. So do I think there are good cops? Sure. You know, do I think some good cops get corrupted by the system? Absolutely. But from my experience in being in neighborhoods that were, you know, more wealthy, you know, the cops are nice. They're generous, you know, they help you change a flat.
TODD: I read this and I'm thinking, boy, it's going to take not a generation, generations-
WATKINS: Generations.
TODD: To rebuild – to build trust. I say rebuild, there’s never been trust. To build trust.
WATKINS: It's an established culture, it’s what it is. When you sign up on the force, the guy who's bringing you in, “You know, hey, I've been walking this beat for X amount of years and, you know, this is how we handle these thugs,” you know, and it gets passed down and passed down and passed down. So, you know, some families pass down wealth and intellect and, you know, opportunity and some families pass down the racism, ignorance and, you know, just negative things. It works the same way.
(...)
TODD: We've talked a lot about law enforcement. Let's talk about other aspects of what's necessary in inner cities. Institutional racism is a phrase – African-Americans immediately know what we're talking about when we say that phrase, but a lot of white America – they don't see it. They don’t – define institutional racism.
WATKINS: So institutional racism can basically be summed up as the different systems in place that keep people down. Overmilitarized police force, poor schools, and our prison industrial complex.
TODD: Funding of schools is probably an easy way to look at it. Where a poor neighborhood is going to have worse schools than a rich neighborhood. Pure and simple.
WATKINS: Exactly.
TODD: Now, the law says that blacks and whites are supposed to have the same – same access to education. But that doesn't happen.
WATKINS: You know, the sad thing about it is that this can happen anywhere. You know, if we went to Hollywood, and you know, we stopped all of the movies and we took away all of the opportunity, and you know, we moved in a militarized police force and then just sprinkled crack over top of everywhere, you would have the same thing. You would have the same thing. Systems in place to keep people exactly where you want them at. And you can't even make it out of that type of situation until you understand these systems exist.
(...)
TODD: It's interesting in the way you talk about President Obama in here. You say something pretty provocative, “Uber has changed the racial dynamic more than President Obama, the first African-American president, has.” Explain.
WATKINS: You know, I think President Obama has had amazing intentions. And I think he got a tremendous – I think he got a whole lot of positive things done. I think, you know, we're going to look back at his presidency from 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now and say it was a big success, he's done a lot. I truly believe that. But he's still-
TODD: Here comes a “but.”
WATKINS: But he's part of a system.
TODD: You don't feel like he changed the system enough for black America?
WATKINS: No, I don't think so. And I think it's impossible to do so.
TODD: Just because of the way the system is right now?
WATKINS: Because of the way the system is. The only way to really change these systems in America or for black America in general is to follow the money, right? It’s economics.
(...)
