In an exclusive interview with Joe Biden on Monday for his PBS program, which was partially re-aired in the 8 a.m. ET hour on Tuesday’s CBS This Morning, host Charlie Rose actually questioned the Vice President on State Department officials rebelling against the Obama administration’s failed foreign policy in Syria: “So what did you think of those 51 diplomats in the State Department who said we need to be more aggressive?”
Biden replied in part: “There's not a single solitary recommendation that I saw that has a single solitary answer attached to it how to do what they're talking about.” Rose followed up: “...you’ve got so many people who want you to do something about Assad first. You're smiling. You've heard it so often.” Biden ranted: “And yet when you press the elected officials and say, ‘Well, what do you want us to do about Assad? Take him out? Is that what you want me to do?’ Tell me how this ends, Charlie. You know, if you're Senator Charlie Rose, tell me how it ends, Charlie?”
After the exchange, fellow co-host Norah O’Donnell cheered Biden for lecturing her colleague: “You know, you can always be a critic from the outside, but it’s like what's the solution? How do you do it without massive loss of life?” Co-host Gayle King chimed in: “His smile was so knowing, too, to that. ‘Tell me what to do.’”
Rose himself defended the Vice President’s deflection: “The unintended consequences he worries about, you know, a lot. And that's the view that President Obama -- is his own rationale for not doing more. My impression...is that the Vice President has had a real influence on the President in terms of his restraint.”
Earlier in the show, Rose touted another portion of the sit-down: “Hours before the Senate [gun control] votes last night, I interviewed Vice President Joe Biden. Our conversation at the Executive Office Building next to the White House was wide-ranging. We began with gun control.”
Rose lobbed this softball: “We have seen in Orlando another terrible terrorist attack. In fact, the largest mass killing in America's history. It brings to the fore once again gun control. Are you any more optimistic that at long last some changes may take place?”
At one point, the Vice President longed for the days of the old west: “And if you have multiple rounds and magazines that hold 19 shots and you essentially go boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, as opposed to, you know, like everybody thinks of the western, the old six shooter...”
In the 8:30 a.m. half hour, Rose introduced yet another portion of the friendly chat, this time focused on “Biden’s Bond” with President Obama: “They started out as political opponents, but they say they will leave office as close friends. For the past eight years, Barack Obama and Joe Biden have been an inseparable political duo.”
After the clip, King gushed: “What a beautiful relationship that President Obama and Vice President Biden have.” O’Donnell fawned: “...they clearly have this strong professional relationship, but they are like brothers. They're like brothers, almost like best friends.” King added: “And they trust each other. That's also important....To know somebody has your back, you can't put a price on that.”
Here is a full transcript of the first two parts of the interview aired on the June 21 broadcast:
7:16 AM ET
CHARLIE ROSE: Hours before the Senate [gun control] votes last night, I interviewed Vice President Joe Biden. Our conversation at the Executive Office Building next to the White House was wide-ranging. We began with gun control.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Biden’s Gun Battle; Vice President on Weapons in America and Terrorism]
ROSE: We have seen in Orlando another terrible terrorist attack. In fact, the largest mass killing in America's history. It brings to the fore once again gun control. Are you any more optimistic that at long last some changes may take place?
JOE BIDEN: Slightly, Charlie, but I do think that at a minimum on matters relating to people on the terrorist watch list being able to purchase a weapon as well as possibly tighter background checks could pass this time.
ROSE: And could it pass a House of Representatives?
BIDEN: I don't know. But all I know is that you’ve got to continue to try. It will eventually pass.
ROSE: Some will argue that if someone is intent on doing great violence, they will find a gun.
BIDEN: Let's assume that's true, okay? Whether they find a gun or they find the equivalent of an AR-15 depends on how much damage they can do. It's like you hear if they don't have a gun they'll get a baseball bat or a knife or whatever, well, they're not going to kill as many people. They're not going to get to as many people. And if you have multiple rounds and magazines that hold 19 shots and you essentially go boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, as opposed to, you know, like everybody thinks of the western, the old six shooter, you know, you got to take it out and you gotta work it again, it matters. It matters the amount of carnage that can occur as a consequence of what type of weapon.
ROSE: This is a political year and these are political issues. This is what you said in a speech you made several hours earlier. “If we turn inward, undermine our most important relationships, or seek soundbite solutions in a world defined by complexity, if we forget who we are, betray our values and embrace intolerance, we will squander all of our hard-earned progress.” Most people who heard that thought you were talking about Donald Trump.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Taking Aim at Trump; VP Biden Slams Billionaire Over Terrorism Comments]
BIDEN: Well, Donald Trump falls into that category, but a lot of other people do as well. But it's a voice that is being heard around the world. If we squander the alliances, if we denigrate them, if we go out there – and there's 1.5 billion Muslims in the world – if we make the religion the enemy, where the hell do you think we're going to get the cooperation?
ROSE: But is that what Donald Trump is doing in your judgment?
BIDEN: Yes.
ROSE: We will have more of our conversation in our next hour. Biden reacts to the extraordinary letter signed by 51 American diplomats critical of the administration's Syria policy, and he opens up about his friendship with the President. That's ahead.
(...)
8:06 AM ET
CHARLIE ROSE: Now more from my conversation with Vice President Joe Biden. We spoke yesterday in his ceremonial office at the Executive Office Building in Washington. I asked about criticism of the Obama administration's use of force or lack of it in trouble spots like Syria and Libya. There are those who argue, look, we’ve had a problem overthrowing these dictators like Mubarak and like Gadhafi and like Saddam, and it’s come back and we might ask the question, would we have been better off if they’d stayed? Saddam, Gadhafi, Mubarak, Assad?
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Taking on Tyrants; Vice President on Overthrowing Foreign Dictators]
JOE BIDEN: Absolutely, I argued strongly against going into Libya. My question was, “Okay, tell me what happens? He’s gone. What happens? Doesn't the country disintegrate? What happens then? Doesn’t it become a place where it becomes a petri dish for the growth of extremism? Tell me, tell what we're going to do.”
ROSE: And it has.
BIDEN: And it has. I don't think we should use force unless it meets certain basic criteria. Is it in the national security interest of the United States, are our interests directly threatened? Number one – or our allies. Number two, is it – can we use it efficaciously? Will it work? And number three, can it be sustained?
Now, I can take you to any part of the world and we put in two, three hundred thousand or 150,000 troops, we can absolutely end the carnage, but we're there. Now, are we going to take – you know, my dad used to have an expression. He’d say, “Joey, if everything is equally important to you, nothing’s important to you.” Tell me, what is – what is our – what are our greatest concerns in terms of our existential existence?
ROSE: So what did you think of those 51 diplomats in the State Department who said we need to be more aggressive?
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: The Diplomacy Divide; VP on Diplomats Challenging White House Over Syria]
BIDEN: The President and I, and previous presidents, support the right of any diplomat to have a secure channel to voice a different view. There's not a single solitary recommendation that I saw that has a single solitary answer attached to it how to do what they're talking about. And every one of them that I'm aware of has – we've done – the President’s been fastidious. He calls the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the intelligence community, the director of Central Intelligence, the CIA, et cetera. “Tell me what will work? Will this work?” And the answer has repeatedly been no.
ROSE: What's interesting about this to me is the idea that you’ve got so many people who want you to do something about Assad first. You're smiling. You've heard it so often.
BIDEN: And yet when you press the elected officials and say, “Well, what do you want us to do about Assad? Take him out? Is that what you want me to do?” Tell me how this ends, Charlie. You know, if you're Senator Charlie Rose, tell me how it ends, Charlie?
NORAH O’DONNELL: Really interesting. You know, you can always be a critic from the outside, but it’s like what's the solution? How do you do it without massive loss of life? It’s interesting.
GAYLE KING: His smile was so knowing, too, to that. “Tell me what to do.”
ROSE: The unintended consequences he worries about, you know, a lot. And that's the view that President Obama, his own rationale for not doing more. My impression – impression – is that the Vice President has had a real influence on the President in terms of his restraint.
O’DONNELL: Yeah, really interesting conversation.
KING: They clearly respect and admire each other. I can't wait to hear the next part, where you’re going to talk about the relationship between the two of them. Looking forward to that.
