The death of Pope Francis serves as a refresher in the perils of media projection. Mourning the loss of a perceived fellow traveler, the media have chosen to project their narrow leftwing culture and ideology on to Pope Francis.
Watch as CBS rehashes former Evening News anchor Norah O’Donnell’s interview of Francis from last year, in particular: a telling exchange on conservatism:
NORAH O’DONNELL: As pope for 12 years, Francis was known for his humility. He stuck to Church doctrine, but extended his hand to those he felt were marginalized, especially migrants and the LGBTQ community.
You have said, “Who am I to judge? Homosexuality is not a crime.”
POPE FRANCIS: No, it’s a human fact.
O’DONNELL: There are conservative bishops in the United States that oppose your new efforts to revisit teachings and traditions. How do you address their criticism?
POPE FRANCIS: You used an adjective, "conservative." That is, “conservative” is one who clings to something and does not want to see beyond that. It is a suicidal attitude. Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to consider situations from the past, but quite another is to be closed up inside a dogmatic box.
You’ll recall that the original interview, which we covered here, was largely a paean to migration and climate change. There were no questions on abortion or same-sex marriage, leftwing policy preferences where Francis did NOT deviate from longstanding Catholic teachings. As we noted at the time, after Francis got his softball climate question:
Here, again, is an issue where Francis’ stances align with those of the Regime, unlike abortion and same-sex marriage (individual non-couple benedictions notwithstanding). More curious minds would have presented Francis with the idea of climate advocacy as a Malthusian enterprise, and asked him to square that with his pro-life positions and teachings.
“Pope Francis was still Catholic” does not make for a sexy, transgressive headline. Instead, we get these media exercises in projection and narrative. This is why you get gauzy coverage about Francis taking the subway and living humbly, but none whatsoever about his chumminess with Latin American socialist regimes and what that entailed.
And yes, you can call that liberal mythmaking. The decision to rehash this interview on the occasion of Francis’ passing proves it.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on the CBS Evening News on Monday, April 21st, 2025:
MAURICE DuBOIS: Our Norah O'Donnell was the only to interview Pope Francis.
JOHN DICKERSON: She met with him at The Vatican in May of last year.
NORAH O’DONNELL: Do you like when you're called “The People's Pope?”
POPE FRANCIS (VIA INTERPRETER): The Pope of the People. I've always been a pastor. You are a pastor for the people, not for yourself. A pastor has to be for the people.
O’DONNELL: Pope Francis was born Jorge Mario Bergoglio in Argentina in 1936 into a family of Italian immigrants. Bergoglio was on his way to a party when he passed a church and felt compelled to go to confession. That moment led him to the priesthood. Decades later, he became Archbishop of Buenos Aires, with a focus on the poor. And in 2001, Pope St. John Paul II elevated him to cardinal. As pope for 12 years, Francis was known for his humility. He stuck to Church doctrine, but extended his hand to those he felt were marginalized, especially migrants and the LGBTQ community.
You have said, “Who am I to judge? Homosexuality is not a crime.”
POPE FRANCIS: No, it’s a human fact.
O’DONNELL: There are conservative bishops in the United States that oppose your new efforts to revisit teachings and traditions. How do you address their criticism?
POPE FRANCIS: You used an adjective, "conservative." That is, “conservative” is one who clings to something and does not want to see beyond that. It is a suicidal attitude. Because one thing is to take tradition into account, to consider situations from the past, but quite another is to be closed up inside a dogmatic box.
O’DONNELL: What do you hope your legacy is?
POPE FRANCIS: I never really thought about it. The church is the legacy. The Church, not only through the pope, but through you, through every Christian, through everyone. Personally, I get on the bandwagon of the Church and its legacy for all.
DuBOIS: Norah joins us, and I never get tired of watching this interview. So why do you think he decided to sit down with you?
O’DONNELL: Well, this interview was almost exactly one year ago, and it surrounded the Vatican's first World Children's Day, something incredibly important to Pope Francis. You know, the Holy Father has used his papacy to focus on children, what world is being left for them, whether that is for migrant children, climate change, or issues of war and peace. In many ways it was a reset for the Church which has been beset by the child sex abuse scandal. In our interview he talked about the reforms, and the zero tolerance for any abuse within the Church.
DICKERSON: Norah, you spent so much time with him. What surprised you about your time with the Holy Father?
O’DONNELL: I was surprised by his warmth, his graciousness. He gave us an hour of his time for this wide-ranging conversation. I mean, popes don't give interviews, but he answered all of our tough questions about doctrines. And one of my favorite parts was when I asked him if he likes being called “The People's Pope”, and he had this huge smile on his mouth. And I think that’s exactly what he wants his legacy to be, this pastoral outreach and a legacy of inclusiveness.
DICKERSON: Norah O’Donnell on her extraordinary interview. Thank you, Norah.
